Episode 20: From Paintings to Action Scenes: Exploring the World of Filmmaking with Director Cinder Chou
Welcome to the season finale of The Hollywood Dream podcast! Thank you to everyone who has tuned in and supported the podcast. In today's episode, we have an exciting interview with the talented filmmaker Cinder Chou, where we'll be diving into the nitty-gritty details of her latest project “Artist Unknown” and her experiences in the industry. From the importance of taking producing classes to the challenges of filming action sequences, Cinder shares her insights on the multifaceted nature of filmmaking.
Cinder is a multifaceted individual who has immersed herself in the world of film and television. With a day job on the TV show "Equalizer," her passion for storytelling shines through. Her journey in the industry has not been without its challenges, having experienced the ebb and flow of demand firsthand. It was around 2009 when she entered the scene, a period marked by the aftermath of the first writers' strike and the recession, resulting in a scarcity of film and TV opportunities. Nevertheless, Cinder's commitment to her craft remained unwavering. Despite the current uncertainties, she has utilized this downtime to explore, travel, and savor the freedom it affords.
With over 13 years of industry experience, her resilience and adaptability have propelled her forward. Cinder's story is a testament to the triumphs and tribulations that come with being part of the ever-evolving world of film and television.
In this episode, Cinder shares some valuable insights into the world of filmmaking, covering everything from pre-production to distribution and the challenges along the way. Here are three key takeaways from our conversation:
1️⃣ Filmmaking is about more than just writing and directing. As Cinder emphasizes, it involves a multitude of tasks, from managing budgets to coordinating logistics and ensuring continuity. It's truly a labor of love that requires a well-rounded skill set.
2️⃣ When pursuing a career in filmmaking, taking a class on producing can be crucial. As Cinder explains, understanding the business side of things is essential for aspiring filmmakers to navigate the industry successfully. Learning about release strategies and distribution can make a significant impact on the ultimate success of a project.
3️⃣ Honoring your unique tastes and style is essential. Cinder believes that filmmakers should stay true to themselves and not be afraid to explore their own creative visions. It's about finding your voice and telling stories that resonate with your own passions and interests. 🎬✨
This episode is a must-listen for aspiring filmmakers and anyone curious about the behind-the-scenes aspects of the industry. Tune in now on your favorite podcast platform and get ready to be inspired by Cinder's incredible journey!
Transcript
Please note: This transcript is auto-generated, so there may be spelling and grammar mistakes.
Johanny [00:00:15]:
Hello, everybody. Welcome come to the Hollywood Dream podcast where I get to talk to the people that are making film and TV, sometimes theater, in New York City and all over the world. today, I'm here with filmmakers, Cinder Chow. She is a filmmaker from Brooklyn who had her first feature film, premiere this summer, the Arturo Bran Floom Festival, which is where we met. and she's one of the amazing filmmakers that I got to meet this summer. And she here for the season finale
Cinder [00:00:51]:
of the very 1st season of the Hollywood dream. Bye. Congratulations. Hello. Thank you. Thank you so much for being here. No problem. I'm honored to be here and here for your season finale. Yes.
Johanny [00:01:04]:
I wish I'd had, some champagne, but we have water. We have this nice water. We have perfect hydration. I know. That's all we need in this really hot day. How have you been doing with a strike? Have you been keeping busy or at least trying to?
Cinder [00:01:20]:
yeah. I was working on the TV show equalizer, and then it pushed indefinitely. So, that was my day job. in addition to being a filmmaker, I also work in accounting in Filament TB. I used to work in production, but then I switched over. But, yeah, I've just been kinda traveling, chilling, taking advantage of having this time. It's not great. Why do we have time? But, you know I know. We're kind of used to it working in the film and TV world. You know? Yeah. Like, you have some high season And then there's times when you're not doing anything, which sucks. Yeah. I mean, I've been in the industry for about 13 years now. So I've definitely, you know, seen a lot, seen when I started, it was around 2000 9. So it was a couple years after the last writers strike. Yeah. And after the recession, so there wasn't a lot of film and TV. So I've seen it grow,
Johanny [00:02:24]:
exponentially and then, you know, we're shut down again. I know. Well, I hope you guys get everything you're asking for. Thank you. And those greedy, CEOs. Don't get what they want. It's wild. Yeah. It's like, how do you need how who needs $30,000,000 a year? Like,
Cinder [00:02:44]:
I mean, I like to have it, but Well, they just are planning to go to Mars. Yeah. So I get it. When you're taking it at that level, yeah, they're broke. You know? Exactly.
Johanny [00:02:55]:
Exactly. So tell me about artists unknown. What was the inspiration behind it? you wrote it and directed it. Right? wrote direct
Cinder [00:03:05]:
was the main producer. I had help with, Carrie and Lauren doing additional producing. yeah. So I the idea came about during the pandemic. I was working on another project called Mrs. softy, which is a feature film based on my summer driving ice cream truck. I had -- What? Yeah. Yep. I did that one summer. talking about odd jobs. Right?
Johanny [00:03:32]:
Wait. Not not to, cut you off. Sure. Sure. We'll go back to artists or no, but Were you mister softy, or what's the other one? Well, because I saw this thing where Mister softy, and I guess they're this they're rivals. Yeah. It's like New York ice cream company. or something. Yeah. And, apparently, it's like the mob where they some trucks are not allowed to be in some territories. And if you do, like, they'll fight and everything.
Cinder [00:04:05]:
I've heard of that. Luckily, I wasn't too involved. I mean, I did have a rivalry with, Mister softy. But, yeah, mister everyone wanted the mister softy truck. I mean, I'm shutting myself out right now because I actually drove an Italian ice truck, which is a very Jersey thing, but for the purposes of the script, I changed it to Missus softy. So -- Oh, okay. Yeah. It's about, a young lesbian who's trying to pay her way to move to the city but keeps running into the mister softy truck. but, yeah, so I was working on that. And then the pandemic happened, and I had to pivot. And I just felt like a need to make something. Mhmm. And I think a lot of people during the pandemic were making low budget stories on, like, Instagram or zoom or finding new ways to tell stories that we're kind of like Gorilla indie filmmaking that I've always wanted to do, but, you know, couldn't come up with maybe a concept, that could service that. So I started brainstorming ideas that I could make with friends and with, you know, just the resources we had. Yeah. And I started looking at stories I was inspired by that could be a jumping off point. So I went to school for art history and visual arts so I've always been interested in the art world. it's a very interesting world.
Johanny [00:05:49]:
There's so much to talk to. Did you ever get to work in the art world or you just study it? I just studied art history.
Cinder [00:05:55]:
I had a choice between working in film and art history. or the our history world, whatever that means. Mostly, it's academia.
Johanny [00:06:03]:
Uh-huh.
Cinder [00:06:04]:
I decided to pursue the film route because I thought it was actually less competitive. And it is. You know, I have friends that are still doing art history, and it's worse. There aren't that many jobs. Oh, okay. Yeah. There you have to find grants and funding and that kind of stuff. And, you know, the jobs are limited. Yeah. And, you know, film was limited, and it's become such a huge industry now. So I was looking at, different stories. I've been collecting stories about people who go to thrift stores and buy, you know, what they think is the piece of junk, and then they go, wait a minute. It's actually a Picasso or, what was it? 1 of the surrealists, they found they bought, bought, like, an artwork that ended up being, Like a dolly.
Johanny [00:06:56]:
How do people know what's real and what isn't?
Cinder [00:07:00]:
Well, Sometimes if it's signed, they can tell. You know, I think the dolly looked it was just kind of a a drawing. So it didn't look like a painting painting. so it didn't look valuable. I think they can Some people will be like, oh, that looks like it's in the style of, you know, an impressionist. or something. And then there I think there are clues, not super versed. And -- Yeah. -- like identifying. And There are experts, and I think there are also people that can, like, copy that too. Another part of the art world I'm really interested in is, kind of fraud in art. Like, there's so many there's a lot of fraud in it. Yeah. part of the one of the docs I watched, to prepare for a writing artist and called Art And Theaf, and it was about this, older man who forged paintings. And then went to these museums and said he, you know, had inherited this artwork and would love to donate it to this museum and he did it for many, many and got away with it. And how did they find out? He didn't get caught because there's no exchange of money. Oh, you know? So there's all these, like, fake art pieces in museums around the world right now. Yeah. But, of course, they don't wanna say that because then they'll lose -- Yeah. -- you know, people coming to go see the valuable artwork. Mhmm. It's kinda crazy. Wow. And then there are people who own artworks, you know, originals, and then they commission forgeries so that they can display the forgery on their wall and then keep the original safe and sound in a warehouse. Interesting. It's like, what's real? I know. What's not real? What's valuable? what's not valuable. I know. So that's, like, a lot of the info for, for artists unknown. Yeah.
Johanny [00:09:11]:
And there's also a lot of fighting in oras unknown. Right. How was it, directing, like, the fight scenes and choreography you hire someone to, like, help you with it? Or Well,
Cinder [00:09:25]:
so the first seed of the idea of artists unknown was the art part. And then the first scene that I envisioned was this woman buying, painting from a thrift store. And then I thought it'd be interesting once she leaves with people try to steal it from her. And I had written the script with Carrie Lacy in mind who is a trained martial artist, so I kind of wrote the whole script around her skill. And I met her in film shop. She's you know, writer, actor, you know, now stuntwoman, trained martial artists. So I knew I could kind of tap into her skills, you know, and she's a really talented actor too. You know, I think a lot of action stars are either really good at action and not so good at the acting, but she's kind of a 2 hander in that way. so I leaned on her a lot for the action stuff. because I never wanted to do action. Yeah. Because it's really hard and
Johanny [00:10:37]:
I know. I was gonna ask, is that like a genre that you'll be interested in?
Cinder [00:10:41]:
When I have actual money. Yeah. But on a low budget level. It's just so difficult because every time there's so many in a fight scene, every single punch is a story beat. You know? So you have to do a lot of coverage to make it look really good, you know, when you actually watch action movies and break them down. there's so much coverage
Johanny [00:11:09]:
that you -- I know. I I love the John Wick franchise. Mhmm. And it's so crazy. Like, all this stuff that they Yeah. They end up doing. Well, they kind of revolutionized
Cinder [00:11:21]:
action movies too because they did the long take. You know? So they worked with actors that could do their own stunts and trained, you know, had a lot of training time and rehearsal time so that they could pull off. But most I think a lot of action movies before that were just like cut cut cut cut cut. You can, like, feel all the cuts. You know? Yeah. What's impressive about
Johanny [00:11:43]:
John Wick was that they can They did it all in one too. Yeah. I know. He's so good. What's his name? Chad. No. no. I was I was thinking Kianu. Oh, of course. Yeah. Kianu. I'm sure the, this dumb person is also great. Yeah. Yeah.
Cinder [00:11:59]:
Well, the director is, Keanu Reese stunt double -- Yeah. -- a long time ago. It turns out the, like, the best action,
Johanny [00:12:07]:
directors are stunt performers, because that's the same thing with, what is that one that just came out on Netflix with, Jamesworth. Hemsworth. He's like something to ex is it it's not expandable.
Cinder [00:12:21]:
I don't know. Extraction too. He was also a stunt performer who directed in. Oh, interesting. I mean, it makes sense. Yeah. I mean, I don't definitely don't have that background. Yeah. So I was -- No. I was saying because it looks really good on,
Johanny [00:12:34]:
like, the chore the fight scenes. Yeah. They came out really good. So I thought maybe you, like, hire, a stunned person to teach you guys. I mean, you did technically with her. Oh, so, yeah, to answer your question, Carrie and her friend
Cinder [00:12:49]:
Francesca, they did the choreography together. They they trained at the same MMA gym in Williamsburg. So, they would kind of put it together and then show me. And then if I had any notes where, you know, we wanted to kind of emphasize maybe the ceiling of the painting or something like that, they I would give them notes here and there, but they did such a good job. I didn't really Havany because they knew what the story was and how the fight needed to service that. Yeah. So they did a great job, and their big inspiration was, like, Jackie Chan stuff. You know? Yeah. where it's like this guy who's just bumbling his way through a fight scene, and he's using everything at his disposal to -- Yeah. -- win the fight. So it's, like, not it's choreographed, but it looks messy on purpose. You know? Okay.
Johanny [00:13:48]:
what were some of the challenges? Like, working on your first feature film. This is your first feature. Right? First. Yeah. You've done, a lot of other shorts. I saw on your website, you've done a lot of shorts. Yeah. How was your experience moving from, like, short films to making now a feature film? Well, everything
Cinder [00:14:06]:
has been a surprise. Everything has been, like, a learning experience. I thought, oh, yeah. Features just, like, doing 5 short films, but It's such a bigger beast. And I started to realize that when we started just the preproduction stuff, in terms of scheduling, there's so much you have to think about in terms of wardrobe and and hair makeup continuity, but, it made me really respect assistant directors who have to kind of put all these puzzle pieces together of the story takes place here, but we're at this location, but she has to be in this outfit, but She has to have this bruise on her face. So, yeah, it was quite a challenge. I think because I have producing background too or production experience as a coordinator that definitely helped, but you can't do it alone. So, you know, I brought on Lauren LaMelle. We met on Facebook. because I put out an ad that I needed a producer. And she came on board and helped me put together the schedule, how are we gonna do this? It ended up being a 15 day shoot. Okay. but it was quite a challenge because we also filmed during the pandemic. So we had to keep our crew at a minimum. So we really only had four or five people on crew, and everyone was wearing multiple hats. I was aiding, scripting, directing, trying to keep track of continuity, and then Carrie was acting, doing this fight stuff, and costumes. Like, she put together the looks for everything, and we didn't have a production designer. So we would kind of I guess the main sets that we needed to design were, Juniper's apartment. but the MMA studio, we didn't really have to dress that much or it's mostly yeah. I'm mostly scheduled for Erieres Juniper's apartment and, the MMA studio. So I knew planning for a feature, your low locations are gonna be the hardest. So if you can keep them to a minimum, that's the best. But we we The problem was we did film at the MMA studio, but the only time we had were on weekends, so we had to film their nonconsecutive nonconsecutively over 2 different weekends. So that meant we had to load in and load out. So then you lose time,
Johanny [00:16:54]:
schedule wise, too. I know. So how was as far as, funding those? How was your funding? Did you do any, like, crowd funding? investors.
Cinder [00:17:06]:
Like, in indie films, sometimes getting money is the hardest thing. Yeah. I can't talk too specifically about budget yet because we haven't found a distributor. Yeah. Which bums me out because I'd love talking about -- Yeah. -- money on budget. I think it's so helpful for indie filmmakers because every financing journey is so different, and there's no one way to do it. I will say I did self finance it. I got lucky and had invested in this, stock.
Johanny [00:17:41]:
Crypto?
Cinder [00:17:43]:
it was a mix of crypto, and I invested in, solar stock. Okay. a solar stock that, like, just blew up. I bought it for a $4 and it jumped at 2.20 by the time. Really? Yeah. So I was like, this is fake money, so I should just make a movie with it. Yeah. my god. I'm always so nervous about those things. Yeah. But if you buy it really low and, you know, the risk of it going down is low. But, you know, sometimes it just takes time for it to get traction or whatever in it. You know, I just I just got lucky. We did crowdfund after we got our rough cut because we realized the act 3 of the movie was really flat. So we went back and filmed for 3 3 more days. So I crowdfunded that. Okay. And then I got a loan for post production. So the money stuff is, like, you kind of yeah. You just figure it out. Yeah.
Johanny [00:18:39]:
You always have people that are willing to help.
Cinder [00:18:42]:
Yeah. Investing.
Johanny [00:18:44]:
For sure. Yeah. I read on your statement that you wrote originally wrote artheisecaper comedy, but ended up with an action rom com. Could you elaborate on your creative process and how that shift happen.
Cinder [00:19:00]:
Sure. I so I said that I envisioned the first scene. Right? her buying the painting, then the fight happens. So then I just start asking questions after that, you know, who is this character? why do this painting mean so much to her? Who are these people that want the painting? it'd be interesting. This is kind of a spoiler, but it'd be interesting if one of the thieves was a woman, you know, and then she's it would be a really interesting character if she's kind of doing like a gift or whatever. So it's just following these threads and these questions. So, you know, originally, yeah, I thought it was gonna be kind of like an art heist, but those are really expensive to do. I know. So I kind of had to move away from that. And then you know, I feel like the film became kind of a multi genre because I couldn't satisfy -- Mhmm. -- the elements of a martial arts genre or, a romcom genre. So it became kind of a mishmash of both of what we could do, you know, because rom coms usually have a lot of locations, a lot of dates, a lot of blah blah blah, so I didn't wanna go down that. So, I mean, writing I feel like writing for to make it yourself is a different process than just writing. You know? I know.
Johanny [00:20:32]:
That's what someone told me, because I also, like, I produce my own shorts and stuff, and someone always told me that as a writer, if you're a writer and producer, if you're writing for, like, your own stuff, you're always thinking about making it as easy as possible to produce, which, yeah, it's -- Where if you're just a rider and you can just, like, free ride I was in Mt Fuji and eat this and that. I flew across the world, yada yada yada. You don't think about all the money and all the Right. How are you gonna get to Japan? And, you know? I think it's a blessing and a curse. Yeah. You know? But I think a lot of writers do get into trouble where they're just writing
Cinder [00:21:14]:
whatever whatever, you know, I think maybe for the 1st draft, you know, go crazy and imagine whatever you want. But, yeah, there've been, you know, scripts where you write one line, and it's, like, a $100,000, like, the army marches across the field towards the castle. That right there is already gonna be, like, a ton of money. Or every yeah. I've read another friend's script where she's like, oh, she's driving down the, highway in a convertible. And I'm like, that's like a helicopter shot. that's, you know A lot of we have to get a convertible -- Right. -- down the highway. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Johanny [00:21:55]:
I know. I'm I guess it's a gift and a curse where for me now. Every time I write, I I think of, like, okay. How am I going to produce this? So I try to keep it as simple as possible. My friend wrote, a feature. he did everything. He but he said everything in his apartment. because he's like, I'm gonna write a movie about a guy who's afraid to go outside.
Cinder [00:22:18]:
That's perfect. Everything was in his apartment, and he may made a feature film. It was super easy for him to do. Yeah. I've had to shut off the budget part of my brain when I'm writing. It's really hard, but You have to get the story first, and then you can go back and make the, you know, you can with the you can put on your practical hat. Yeah. and go like, no. You can't have that, I don't know, giant spaceship
Johanny [00:22:45]:
across over Manhattan or something. You know? I know. Even for writing for TV, I know this girl's, writer, and I had her on the podcast, and she was sharing, they usually produce the, the their episodes. And she was just sharing, like, there's so much that you don't they ask you so many questions. I was like, alright. If you write about this girl, she's writing she's crying in her car. How long has she been crying? Cause she they have to do her makeup? What type of car does she drive? what is her economic status? Is she rich? Is she poor? So they have to, like, they have to think about what type of car they're gonna get for her. And it's Like, there's so many questions that they ask in production that she, as a writer, never thought of it until she produces her own episode. Oh, yeah. And you don't know how much things cost until you've done it a few times. You know? I mean,
Cinder [00:23:36]:
I wrote Missus Soffy thinking it it would be something I could make. Yeah. You know? And then -- And is this a feature or short? -- feature. Yeah. But I quickly realized that it's gonna be a much bigger beast than I originally intended. You know? But I think as a indie filmmaker, it is a challenge because you wanna make something interesting, but the things that you can afford as an indie filmmaker, not that not that interesting. You know? Most people can just afford filming in an in one apartment, you know, or one location. That's why you see so many indie horror movies that take place in a cabin. I know. And how many variations of that can we do? I mean, infinite. The limit does not exist. Exactly.
Johanny [00:24:23]:
So -- What are your type of, your favorite type of films to watch that, inspire you?
Cinder [00:24:33]:
I watch everything. It's kind of a mixed bag. I mean, I feel like I try to do my homework and watch art house stuff. but recently, I was doing a Q And A for film combat syndicate. They're a martial arts they review martial arts films and stuff like that. So, Lee asked me what I used to watch, and I realized that I grew up watching a lot of action stuff, but I guess, somewhere along the way, I thought I have to be a serious filmmaker now, so I can't, like, action's not art. You know? Yeah. But actually, now I know that action is the most challenging of -- Yeah. the most technically challenging. And so now I watch action movies with, like, a different lens. So I really love the Mad Max series. Mhmm. George Miller is probably my career goal. Like, he did Mad Max and big pig in the city. and happy feet.
Johanny [00:25:33]:
So many different films. I love that. All three of them. are so good. Yeah. So I love that.
Cinder [00:25:40]:
I guess, serious art question. I I would like I like Felini. I like, Celine Shyama. She did portrait of a lady on fire. Yeah. I just really like a tight story.
Johanny [00:25:58]:
Do you usually incorporate your art history background into your storytelling, or was that was that just like a one time thing for artists or no?
Cinder [00:26:11]:
That's mostly a one time thing. I I actually think that my film in my films, I don't pay enough attention to the visual elements mostly because my attention is so much on how do you get this off the ground. Yeah. But I think that's something I wanna focus on more going forward. And, you know, I think there's so much to be told about the art world. so many stories so much.
Johanny [00:26:39]:
I know. That's an interesting, world. Have you seen that movie with Jake Gyllenhaal. It's, he's like an art dealer or an art gallery person. I'm gonna tell you right now. It's actually really good. It's on, I'm not gonna say their name because we're we're not gonna support them during the strike. Jake, chilling. Wait. Jake, chilling Hall. But while I find him, can you share, like, was there any challenges that you've aside from the pandemic? that you faced during the filming of artists unknown, and how do you guys work through those? Well,
Cinder [00:27:26]:
I like to film outside a lot because I don't like waiting for lighting changes, which I think is Everyone has their own process. Right? Some people really like to be on a controlled sound stage where you can control the lights and the sound, but I kinda like being the chaos of the city. Mhmm. So we did film in a park for one of the picnic dates And at one point, there were 3 ice cream trucks at that park. So my sound -- Oh, no. -- mixer was she did such a great job. She was so chill. I you know, what can she do? Is this the the the picnic? Yeah. The picnic date. Yeah. And that scene was really goal to edit because of that because of the audio issues we had. I definitely made it harder for every everybody else. I mean, filming in the gym was a challenge. I mean, doing the action stuff was a challenge too. We just moved a lot slower than I anticipated because Jesse RDP was a one man band. He was doing all the lighting himself, and he did all the focus pulling, like, all the camera operating. So he really did such a great job. You know? And it looks really good because -- He did. Yeah. It looked really good. But at a certain point, we realized we all have to chip in and help him. So we were like, you know, Lauren got up on a ladder and was adjusting lights. So we all We're like, Jesse, what do you need? Because I need the 50 mill ends. We're like, okay. Great. So it's tough. Everybody just chipped in. It's worked together. Yeah. Teamwork makes the dream work. For sure. And, oh, so the other the problem about filming Exteriors is if it rains or the weather's bad, then you have to move to coverset. And we didn't have a lot of interior locations that we could choose from. So that did happen one day where we had to go to another location before we were scheduled to. Okay.
Johanny [00:29:25]:
Yeah. And how you you mentioned you worked in production. how did you get your
Cinder [00:29:32]:
career started in production. You've been working for 13 years? Yeah. Yeah. So I went to school in New York. I grew up in New Jersey and then went to Fortum. division Arts in art history. And then I started interning on different projects while I was in school, different short films. I met my friend Stephanie Blackwood, who also helped out a lot on on artist unknown. She got me my first job on a feature film called Afterlife, which was with Liam Nissan and Christina Ritchie. So I I intern on different things to you know, you never know where a connection's gonna go. So for people starting out, it's unfortunately, it's just free labor and, like, meeting as many people as possible. And if they like you, they'll hire you. So that's how I got my start. And I linked up with this crew, and then they hired me on different things. And then I started moo moving my way up in the production office. from Office PA to secretary to APC to, coordinator, is either that or go to set, but set, it could it's like a 2 year process before you're actually making a livable wage, like people are PAs for at least 2 years before they get into the DGA, and that's your your rate, like, don't know. I wanna say multiplies by 10. You know? Wow. The DJA is, like, big money. But yeah. So I just started working my way up and then worked on smaller indie projects and then worked on bigger budget projects So I think one of the first movies I worked on was, like, a $500,000 movie. And then I started working on, like, $1,000,000, $5,000,000
Johanny [00:31:25]:
$10,000,000. Yeah. It's all about, like, networking and just I know. I wish I did that. I've moved here to, like, be an actress, and I went to, a conservatory. No worries. And I was just, like, focused on my there, and I didn't wanna do anything else. But now, like, looking back, I wish I did more and working, like, as a PA and -- Yeah. -- production.
Cinder [00:31:48]:
I mean, I don't recommend I you do learn a lot about how set runs and how the departments work together and communicate. or don't. Mhmm. And the problems, you know, that creates and stuff like that. I definitely learned a lot. What to do and what not to do. You know? I've seen directors who yell at people and just seen the trickle down effect that has on everybody and how every that everybody's just in a state of, like they look like, nervous chickens with their head cut off. You know, the whole set's just running I know. I wasn't I did,
Johanny [00:32:24]:
do I was an extra on a TV show, and it was the worst experience I've ever had. it was such a toxic place. They were yelling at yelling at the extras. Yeah. And that was nonunion, and then I got yelled at because That was my first time, and I didn't know that that the crew ate first. So I went over there and I got my little plate. I was like, taking food. Right. And someone was like, the crew has to eat first. If you're nonunion, you have to wait. and everyone was just looking at me. So I just got my little plate, and I, like, walked away.
Cinder [00:33:00]:
Oh, yeah. They show you the hierarchy real quick. Right? poor extras, the same thing here.
Johanny [00:33:06]:
I know. Okay. So we're gonna, I have this segment, which I mentioned earlier. I've been doing this with everybody. Sure. Before I I wrote it, I was I had a list of questions, but I got my designing skills, and I made this. Oh, wow. Wait. See? Oh, he can't he can't submit on that. Right? No. Okay. That's fine. So I got all these questions.
Cinder [00:33:40]:
Oh, goodness. I'm nervous.
Johanny [00:33:43]:
so they're all just random questions about you. And you just have 2 minutes to answer as many as you can. Okay. And then hold on. Let me make sure I don't. Let me just take a The number to beat is 23. Oh gosh. Okay. And that was,
Cinder [00:34:02]:
David Bell. Of course. I mean, what a what a guy.
Johanny [00:34:06]:
So you have to you have to beat him.
Cinder [00:34:09]:
Okay. I'm gonna beat him. Okay. Ready. I will do my best.
Johanny [00:34:16]:
What's your favorite thing to do on the weekends? Sleep. Are you a morning person or a night person? Night. What's the most exciting thing you've ever done?
Cinder [00:34:28]:
Oh, gone to Antarctica.
Johanny [00:34:31]:
Oh, Most unique place you've visited. Well, on target. What's your favorite type of cuisine?
Cinder [00:34:40]:
Oh, Chinese food.
Johanny [00:34:44]:
What's your favorite movie of all times? Carol. What's your favorite type of music?
Cinder [00:34:52]:
Oh, everything. but pop.
Johanny [00:34:56]:
What's your favorite hobby or past time?
Cinder [00:34:59]:
I recently got into boxing. So
Johanny [00:35:01]:
Yeah. What's one thing most people don't know about you?
Cinder [00:35:06]:
I speak 3 languages.
Johanny [00:35:10]:
Can't say what they are.
Cinder [00:35:11]:
Mandarin English Italian. Ah.
Johanny [00:35:14]:
Yeah. If you could be any fictional character, who will you be?
Cinder [00:35:19]:
Sherlock Holmes,
Johanny [00:35:22]:
I guess. What's your dream car?
Cinder [00:35:27]:
I really missed the sob that I had in high school.
Johanny [00:35:32]:
Guilsey Pleasure.
Cinder [00:35:36]:
I don't ice cream.
Johanny [00:35:37]:
Committee or drama? Comedy. Which sport do you think is the most boring of all?
Cinder [00:35:46]:
Curling. Curling? Yeah. It's the ice sport with it. Oh, yeah. The brooms. Okay.
Johanny [00:35:52]:
Three words your friends will use to describe you.
Cinder [00:35:56]:
Funny, charming, glamorous.
Johanny [00:36:00]:
The model of your first phone. Oh.
Cinder [00:36:05]:
Oh god. I can't remember. It was a flip phone.
Johanny [00:36:09]:
You don't remember the the razor?
Cinder [00:36:11]:
No. It wasn't that one.
Johanny [00:36:13]:
It was a fun film. Okay. I'll give it to you. Favorite reality TV show? I don't
Cinder [00:36:20]:
I'll say love on the spectrum on Netflix. That one's cute. Ah, okay. There we go. How do I do? Let's see. Let's see.
Johanny [00:36:31]:
1, 2,
Cinder [00:36:34]:
3. I feel like there's a lot in there. So 5,
Johanny [00:36:39]:
6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 7. Oh, you didn't win 17. So close. You were close enough. I was more competitive. I don't know. Like -- For I I guess these are really thick, so for a second, I thought you were gonna do it. But -- I thought so too. Yeah. Okay. How was Antarctica? I've always wanted to go.
Cinder [00:37:07]:
It was good. I went on a cruise with my parents for 14 days it was we didn't disembark on Antarctica, but those kind of cruises are super expensive. I think it's, like, 15,000
Johanny [00:37:21]:
a person or something like that. I was just talking to my friend. I was like, let's go to Antarctica next year. And then I started looking and there was, like, $20,000. the ones that go on land or just -- There were different ones. There was one. It ranged from, like, 9000 to 20000. Yeah. So I was like, never mind.
Cinder [00:37:39]:
Well, I guess we got a cruise group deal. So, we went with my friend's parents, and there were just a bunch of Taiwanese people who got this deal. I think they're Costco on the celebrity cruise to go to Antarctica, but, it was pretty amazing once we got down there. Yeah. Everyone was just so excited to see, like, penguins and whales. It's just such a different environment, you know, like, everyone was, like, kids again. But going through the Drake passage was pretty scary because that's, the ocean between South America and Antarctica, and it's 2 oceans converging of, like, hot air and cold air. So the waves are crazy. Really? It's kinda scary, actually. And I'm glad I didn't watch Triangle of sadness before.
Johanny [00:38:30]:
I've never seen that movie, but people say it. It's really good. Do they crash?
Cinder [00:38:35]:
It takes place on a cruise. Yeah. And, yeah, they go through some really choppy water. I think it's a much smaller boat, but still.
Johanny [00:38:44]:
How was your boat? Because I I when I was doing my little research, after I concluded that, I can't afford it. Right. they said they don't allow
Cinder [00:38:54]:
big cruise ships. You have to be like a specific small smaller one. Oh, yeah. I can't remember the capacity of the already cruise, but, yeah, they I don't they can't get super close to it. So we would just kind of, you know Wondering, like, just driving around. Go around. Yeah. And we were on at see for 11 days out of 14 days. So it was a long time to be on a boat with your parents.
Johanny [00:39:18]:
I know.
Cinder [00:39:19]:
So you never got off those 14 days? 3 days. Yeah. One day was in on the Falkland Islands. One day was Monte Vidyo and Oh, another day was like Porto Madrin.
Johanny [00:39:34]:
Okay. Yeah. now that artists are known, is done your you mentioned you're working on each distribution, going to the festivals. are there any other festivals lined up, or what is what are you guys doing right now? Yeah. We've gone into 4 more. Oh, congratulations. I don't know if they've announced yet, but,
Cinder [00:39:55]:
I'll I'll name them, and then we'll see if they've announced. But, yeah, the next one is gonna be a broad humor, film festival in LA. Cool. And then the Irish Prize lgbt film festival in Cartif Wales. That one's really exciting. And then there's the artist form, festival of the moving image, and then our last one, is Fort Lauderdale. Nice. We're still waiting to hear back from, I think, like, 10 to I think, like, 15. But, yeah, it's the numbers. The festival thing is, like, I know. I feel like it's a numbers game. I mean, I think there's definitely a strategy to it. People do hire film festival strategets and maybe for the next one, I will. You know?
Johanny [00:40:38]:
But -- Are you going to any of the ones you got in?
Cinder [00:40:41]:
Yeah. I'm gonna try to go to all of them. Okay. Might as well. Yeah. Everyone's really excited about whales. Every they're like -- Are you gonna go? Oh, yeah. You're gonna go. Yeah. I'm gonna go. That's exciting. Everyone's like, can I come? I go, yeah. It's really exciting to go
Johanny [00:40:56]:
like, overseas or, like, just outside of the US for a festival. Yeah. I haven't done it yet. It's so nice. I went to when I I I did when I was doing the shorts, I got into a few festivals, like, outside of the US. And I went to Madrid, and that was so nice. And then London. Cool.
Cinder [00:41:14]:
That's awesome.
Johanny [00:41:16]:
Yeah. It was cool. Did you go the whole time? Or -- No. I went towards the end. Yeah. I was like, one of those people that I was like, can you guys schedule my short, like, towards the end so I could go? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they're really cool. That's cool. Yeah. So they can go for the parties. Yeah. They had a really nice, awards ceremony at the end, which was nice because I got dressed up. Yeah. And then you might you made so many people from, like, everywhere. Like, I met filmmakers from China. from other places in Europe, the US, in LA. So it's a great way to, like, meet other films. Yeah. I'm excited
Cinder [00:41:57]:
to finally experienced that. And, you know, I met so many
Johanny [00:42:01]:
great filmmakers at Art of Brooklyn. Everyone was so nice. You know? I know it's a nice, like, that's what I like about, indie filmmaking that it's a really cool, like, because supportive community because we we know what it takes to make a movie. Like, we all understand what we went through. So it's a nice supportive environment.
Cinder [00:42:21]:
Do you find that you watch movies through a different lens now?
Johanny [00:42:24]:
Yeah. Yeah. Now that, like, that I made a few, I'm always like I wonder how much that costs. I wonder if it is. I wonder that. Does it ruin it? No. Yeah. It adds to it. It adds to the experience. You're like, you don't this crazy. It was crazy. I was like, who wrote this?
Cinder [00:42:45]:
How much money did this cost? Yeah. Just like watching Mad Max and knowing that all of those are, like, practical stunts and stuff. That is crazy.
Johanny [00:42:54]:
What was the other oh, Barbie, that whole set, they made Barbie world. It's, like, real.
Cinder [00:43:00]:
And that was so I was so impressed by that. I haven't seen a behind the scenes, but I saw the driving thing, and I hadn't no idea that that's how they do it. I just assumed that they were on some
Johanny [00:43:11]:
green screen or something. No. It's all real. So, it's on YouTube. They did, you know, The the place where they do the houses, AD, architecture, digest. Oh. It's there. They did like a tour of the Barbie House. And they they built all the Barbie houses, the refrigerator, the car, the street. The whole world was real. That's crazy. I was so impressed.
Cinder [00:43:36]:
That's awesome. I know. But, yeah, watching these behind the scenes stuff. Like, I started watching the mission impossible movies now. I know. And you know, I also recently got into the fast and furious franchise. Oh, that's that place is just But Mission Impossible is kind of special because a lot of the actors are doing their own stunts. Yeah. Tom Cruise. He jumped off the cliff.
Johanny [00:43:59]:
So it makes the movie feel -- I know. -- real in a way, even though some of the story lines pretty hokey, but -- I know. The Michelin Pass, have you seen the last the last one? the whole train sequence -- Oh, yeah. -- they crash a real train. I saw the behind the scenes. They crash they build this whole train. and they crashed the whole thing. Yeah. It was, like, real. Oh. I was so impressed. I gotta watch that behind the scenes. Yeah. Going I went on YouTube. I fell into a deep hole of behind the scene. I watched it behind the scenes of the last James Bond movie. Okay. They were doing,
Cinder [00:44:33]:
like, a chasing, and they said that they had to pour Coca Cola all over the streets because when it evaporates, it leaves a lot of sugar. Yeah. And the stickiness helps with the traction.
Johanny [00:44:45]:
Really?
Cinder [00:44:46]:
And I was like, movie magic.
Johanny [00:44:48]:
Yeah. You learn a lot when you watch those behind the scenes. It's not just, like, what they do, but as a filmmaker, you can get some tips, yeah, and tricks. back to your art history background, are there any museums that you you're so what what are some of your favorite museums? Not like the man or Yeah. -- at the time, but, like, what are some of you think are the best ones in the city or outside the city? I really like the Brooklyn Museum I think their curation's really cool.
Cinder [00:45:21]:
and I think they tie into the community in a really, great way. And they've done a lot of innovative exhibitions. Like, I think I saw the Terry Moodler. Mhmm. And just the opening the first room you walk into is, like, this weird projection film art piece, and I still don't know how they did it.
Johanny [00:45:43]:
Wow.
Cinder [00:45:45]:
Hey. It's -- I've never been to the Brooklyn Museum. Oh, you gotta check it out. Another one that's pretty cool is the Noya, gallery because they have, a cafe in the basement that's really stellar. Okay. It's like an Austrian style, cafe. What else do I like? I mean, the mat's always great. but, yeah, the Brooklyn's pretty cool.
Johanny [00:46:14]:
Okay. I recently went to the mat. I I didn't know they had, like, a rooftop Oh, yeah. Thing. So I went there, but there was there was nowhere to sit, which was kinda disappointing. It was just like a bar. Yeah. But you just to, like, walk around. There's some installation there. there was nowhere too soon. That's crazy. Yeah.
Cinder [00:46:37]:
Anyways, do they have a rooftop bar or something?
Johanny [00:46:40]:
I don't know. Are they met? Yeah. No. I guess not. No. They do. They have a bar, but they're like, you just have to go back, get your drink, and just walk around, which was I thought there would be, like, a place for me, my friend to sit and, like, eat. Yeah. It wasn't what I was expecting. Yeah. That's a anyways. Alright. So is are there any words of which that you would like to share from your from your experience, either work in production.
Cinder [00:47:11]:
words of wisdom. yeah, I think if you're at the top, you set the tone. So if you're a yeller, you know, like, I learned that from being on sets too is, yeah, you set the tone. If you're a yeller, everyone else is gonna kind of mirror that. So it's hard because you're under so much pressure. but you kind of just have to keep a cool and, you know, quoting my favorite filmmaker, apparently. I have others too. It's not just George Miller, you know, But, he he said something like you have to surf the problems, you know, just, like, ride it like a wave and yeah. figured out, go with the flow, which is really hard too, because when you have this plan and then you're you're deviating from it, it can feel like you're losing control, but -- Mhmm. Sometimes that's the best thing. You know? Be like water. Yeah. Yeah. Brucely.
Johanny [00:48:12]:
Great guy. I know. And then my final question, do you have any advice for anyone starting filmmaking right now or trying to break into this industry? Is there any advice you can say either to break in or just in general?
Cinder [00:48:28]:
I guess if you're looking to make your own films, take a class on producing because I feel like that's such a blind spot for people -- Mhmm. -- that You know, nobody wants to deal with the nitty gritty non fun stuff, but I think at the end of the day, we all have to do the like, so much of filmmaking is not what you think it is. Yeah. Some people most people I think is like writing or directing, but it's everything before and everything after. You know? I think I'm year 3 on artists unknown, and so much of it was before, and so much of it is after now. You know, the the festival is the release strategy, the distribution of it. but I guess for filmmakers, it's, honor your in idiosyncratic tastes. Like, I think we're all hired for our unique tastes and style. Yeah. I don't know what a cinderchow film feels like to other people, but --
Johanny [00:49:25]:
What do you want people to get when they watch artists or no? Like, what is the message you want them takeaway.
Cinder [00:49:31]:
For I've I've seen this film I see the audience as queer film a queer audience and, like, women. So it's really just trying to find the stories that have been hidden or erased in order to find the ways to free yourself. You know? Yeah. Because I think a lot of the things were taught are like, sometimes traditions grade, and it can be really oppressive for people too. So, yeah, learning that not everything that we're taught is true. I agree. Yeah.
Johanny [00:50:09]:
Well, thank you so much for being here and being part of the season finale. if you want people to find you or watch or watch, artists unknown where it's gonna be playing next. Is there a place that people could go?
Cinder [00:50:27]:
Follow me on Instagram my handle is cinderblockade, and our films
Johanny [00:50:34]:
Instagram page is artist unknown film. And I'll insert it somewhere. Thank you. And then you guys could follow the podcast at the Hollywood Dream pod, and I made a website where all the episodes and everything about the podcast lives on. It's the hollywood dream podcast.com. And thank you everyone who tune in for the 1st season I'm gonna be taking a break for the summer, but I'll be back, hopefully, with 20 more filmmakers, sometime in the fall. until we see each other again. Bye.
Cinder [00:51:13]:
Bye.
